When I met Jonathan this summer, it was shortly after the death of George Floyd and the first demonstration that took place, also in Europe. At the same evening he got approached by various people, thanking him for a moving speech he held during the Black Lives Matters protests. Openly and vulnerably he shared his personal and ‘never-ending story’ of encounters with racism that he had to experience as a Person of Colour growing up in the Netherlands. His father is Dutch and his mother from Rwanda, so he tells me later. Born in Namibia, Jonathan’s family moved to the Netherlands when he was three years old. At 16, he moved from Haarlem to Maastricht, where he now studies Chinese Language and Communication. I met with him in late summer to pick up where the speech ended, to talk about his journey and activism as well as the decolonisation efforts of the Netherlands.

Black Lives Matter Protest Maastrich 2020, ©jonathan

Viola: How do you consider yourself or have you been considered by others in racial categories? Especially as your background is connected to different places and cultures; how do you conceptualize that part of your identity?

Jonathan: That is a tricky question, because I am mixed race, even though I grew up in the Netherlands. Up until a few years ago I would have said ‘Dutch with a tan’. But then I started to really take in and appreciate the African side of the family. My mother and all my cousins and aunts are African. It is a big part of myself and it would be a shame to leave that aside. Initially, I would have said I feel very Dutch and I am Dutch but now it has shifted to a 50/50 ratio. This has also to do with me studying my mother tongue and getting to know my family and visiting them. And I took part in the Black Lives Matter movement here in the Netherlands as well.

And in terms of others, normally no, but there have been a few moments in my life where I was like ‘oh, that’s how it works now’. For instance, it happens in conversations about the BLM movement with POC (People of Color) and White peers alike. From time to time there is a confrontational bit within a conversation, which does not always go down too smoothly. I would be talking to people that are very close to me and at one point they were referring to ‘them’ and ‘us’, and me being on the other side of the conversation. Minutes ago, we had a political discussion and we were all friends, we were all one. From time to time you feel categorized as negative and for some people that would mean coloured, which is indeed a racist experience. Or it is the other way around; you are categorized as coloured and for some people that means something negative. And that really hurts.

V: What do you consider racist behavior, if you would give it a personal definition?

J: It definitely has layers in it as well. For me, it is ‘prejudice based upon race’. Whenever I feel offended, I would make a comparison: “If I would have been White, would it have been the same conversation, the same experience, the same effect?” So, I reverse the roles and ask if it would have been different. For example, in the context of micro-aggression; if someone would come up to me who I don’t know and would tell me “Oh your Dutch is amazing” I would respond: “I have lived here since I was three and I am Dutch”. So, if I reverse the roles and I would be White, and someone would come up to me and say this, it would obviously be weird. These sorts of questions are just based upon the colour of my skin. Next to that, there is obviously the text-book definition of racism: The general disadvantage you get, based upon your race, in an institutionalized fashion. That is what I would call racism. And that takes many shapes and forms.

V: Did you experience racism also by White peers who ‘mean it well’?

J: It hasn’t happened to me that often but I feel like it does happen from time to time that people are a bit too eager to tell me how active they are with their activism in the context of BLM. You are not doing it personally for me. So, it sometimes gets this energy of doing it for the compliments of a Black person.

V: Let’s talk about education and the production of knowledge! How much do you know about the colonial history of your country and how much has it been discussed in school? In Dutch schools but also how much do you know on a personal level of the history of your family and Namibia?

J: History classes in the Netherlands do not cover the colonial history of the Netherlands properly. Not even close. There might be a chapter, or a few days dedicated to the topic, instead we take months talking about the Greeks and Romans. And it does not recognize that a very big part of the Dutch wealth was generated by colonial exploitation. And nine out of ten times it’s like “oh it was low-key sad but yes, the Golden age and ahh abundance”. So, education is really biased towards everything that was obtained but not towards what was exploited. People have not forgotten but they should discuss it properly. I can barely remember even covering the topic of slavery in school.

When it comes to the history of Rwanda, where my mother comes from, it is a bit sad how little I know myself. That is also because the history of Africa is almost not existing in Dutch history class since everything is very Eurocentric. There might be this one person who knows Rwanda but relates it immediate to the genocide. That ties to the question of how much do I know, because a very big part of that same genocide was caused by colonialism. And not because of what people think it is, meaning this idea of tribes being put together and being rivals, this primitive narrative of Africans. I used to think something similar as well, up until a few months ago when my mom explained to me that it was not like this at all. People were living in peace in it wasn’t until the Belgians, the second colonizer after the Germans, came in and gave value to the ranks and the privileges that came with positions in higher ranks. Only that caused things to stir up and eventually escalate to what we know happened in 1994, the Rwandan genocide. But somehow the narrative still exists today: “It’s just you Africans being aggressive as usual”. Not just that it is not true, I feel like many African countries are framed in the same way. I personally do not know the history of the majority of the African countries because of the same euro-centric education in the Netherlands.

The Rwandan genocide, also known as the Genocide against the Tutsi took place for over three month during the Rwandan Civil War. Under the Hutu-led government, by the hand of the Interahamwe and Impuzamugambi militans the life of estimated 500.0000 – 1.000.000 Tutsi was brutally taken.

V: We already spoke about the Netherlands a bit but to what extent do you see the colonial heritage of the country still being present today?

J: Racism is still very much a thing. It takes the form of microaggression on the day to day basis. Much institutional racism however finds its roots in colonial history. It is not just about wealth but also this unwritten rule that People of Color are worth less than White people. For example, what I mention in the speech, that I have already more skin-privilege because I am mixed-race. So it only happened to me once, or twice that I experienced textbook racism of “I don’t want you because you are a n*****”. But it still happens and I do not think it fits in the progressive, modern image of a country like the Netherlands.

V: What do you think you, or people in general, on an individual level, can do to combat colonial thinking and racism?

J: To the extent that I throw out internalized racism, it is up to me to fix and reprogram this conditioning. With my activism for the BLM movement, I believe I am doing a lot. What I came to realize recently is that it is also not up to me, to us as People of Color to educate everyone. Because it is kind of a standard, and everyone screams ‘everyone is equal’, but if you really believe that sentence then you should be able to figure out what is going on and educate yourself. But I personally can keep on educating myself, spreading information, signing petitions, making sure Black Pete, the black facing, is banned during the Sinterklaas celebration in December. With the speech for instance, which I gave during the BLM protest, I feel like I framed it in a way that People of Color feel understood and not alone, but also allies and other people who have never experienced racism can actually understand it.

V: As an active member of BLM Maastricht and personally very concerned with the topic, how did you perceive the time when the movement was very much in the public eye, particularly after the death of George Floyd, and how did you see that developing in the last couple of months?

J: In the beginning, the topic got so much exposure, so many things were shared and it was trending. A few weeks later it went down and down, due to world news and also because of the difficulty of protesting during a pandemic. I felt like people wanted to find a reason to disapprove. One way or another, we will keep on protesting, within the corona rules; keeping the distance, people wearing masks. And yes, this is what I have been doing, even though I know the media will probably frame it as “these people don’t give a shit about the pandemic”. This is what they have been doing in the beginning, when the topic was trending as well. The protests were mainly in the media because they were violating the corona rules. The whys and the whats did not receive the same attention, which was a very messed up framing. Now we rarely reach the mainstream media discourse anymore and only people who are already interested in it will still get the news and information.

V: As the problem of racism and colonialism is manifold and the beginning was also influenced by the death of George Floyd, did something also change in what was communicated during the protest and let’s say what was on the agenda?

J: Nothing really changed actually. It sparked out because of the death of George Floyd and the circumstances around it. If he would have been a White man, it wouldn’t have happened. But the movement in general for me was not about him but about institutionalized racism and about spreading awareness that people need to get rid of it. But also, police brutality for instance. It is not as bad here as in the USA, but it is still a subject. A couple of months ago, the government announced that the Boa’s (a part of the Dutch civil police force) should get more means to defend themselves. And that was already after the death of Tomy Holton in Zwolle, which was a similar story to George Floyd’s, where five police officers used excessive force and he died soon afterwards.

V: When you held your moving speech at one of the BLM demonstrations in Maastricht, how did people react to the confrontation with your experiences?

J: Good. Amazing. But at the same time, even though the responses were so good it is still about something sad. For many People of Color, the response was like: “Finally I am not alone in this. And it is really sad and messed up, but I am really happy you spoke out and showed your vulnerability.” Many White people showed support through expressions such as “I didn’t know you face this, and I have never seen you in this kind of context and narrative.” or “This really shocks me because I would not see you any differently based on the colour of your skin.” or “Because I know you as a person, I wouldn’t categorize you as a person of colour.” Even the responses from my family, from my Dad’s side, so the Dutch side I heard those comments: “I never knew you faced this kind of things and it really breaks my heart to hear that”. Actually, my niece had an idea to write a book together, making a side by side comparison of the experience of growing up. On the one side a White kid and on the other side a Black child. By making sure the contexts and all the examples are similar, just to show people what it actually means to be coloured. But back to the responses, they were great, heartfelt and nothing negative. But in all honesty, how could anyone respond in a negative way? I am not sharing my opinion but I literally shared who I am and what I have experienced.

V: I think it is so important that people share their stories and their voices are being hurt. We just need to listen to each other more. But at the same time people like you have to show themselves very vulnerable and that is quite a burden.

J: Yes, that is 100 % correct. It is my, our problem as we are the ones facing the problem. And again, you still have to be the one to stand up and be vulnerable again, be strong again, be ‘cleaning-up’ again. At the same time, with the protest and everything, being together with the people who know what you are talking about is really empowering. It is not just about screaming and disobedience but about supporting each other and being there for each other.

V: Before finishing, if you think about decolonization and fighting racism, is there anything specific you would like to share you think we should all be doing?

J: First, I believe the colonial history of the Netherlands but also the history of Africa, in general, should be taught properly in school. And second, everything we discuss is Eurocentric, and we should be conscious of that. From that point of view, you don’t care what is going on, or has been going on in Africa, because apparently, it doesn’t matter to you. That is the narrative that is being told in all subjects, also history and business classes are Eurocentric. Every business you know is European or American, but do you know any big African businesses? I practically don’t and that is also a journey for me to change my way of thinking because I grew up in the context of this narrative as well. Colonial history is a fact. It should be taught as such but also including the aftermath of it, which includes the social aspect but also many other layers which aren’t discussed.

The Rwandan genocide, also known as the Genocide against the Tutsi took place for over three month during the Rwandan Civil War. Under the Hutu-led government, by the hand of the Interahamwe and Impuzamugambi militans the life of estimated 500.0000 – 1.000.000 Tutsi was brutally taken.

V: We already spoke about the Netherlands a bit but to what extent do you see the colonial heritage of the country still being present today?

J: Racism is still very much a thing. It takes the form of microaggression on the day to day basis. A couple of days ago, for instance, this random lady came up to me and when she realized I was Dutch, but not your standard Dutch looking guy, she was like “oh yeah you know why…”, “NO! Why are you even in my space?!”

Much institutional racism finds its roots in colonial history. It is not just about wealth but also this unwritten rule that People of Color are worth less than White people. For example, what I mention in the speech, that I have already more skin-privilege because I am mixed-race. So it only happened to me once, or twice that I experienced textbook racism of “I don’t want you because you are a n*****”. But it still happens and I do not think it fits in the progressive, modern image of a country like the Netherlands.

V: What do you think you, or people in general, on an individual level, can do to combat colonial thinking and racism?

J: To the extent that I throw out internalized racism, it is up to me to fix and reprogram this conditioning. With my activism for the BLM movement, I believe I am doing a lot. What I came to realize recently is that it is also not up to me, to us as People of Color to educate everyone. Because it is kind of a standard, and everyone screams ‘everyone is equal’, but if you really believe that sentence then you should be able to figure out what is going on and educate yourself. But I personally can keep on educating myself, spreading information, signing petitions, making sure Black Pete, the black facing, is banned during the Sinterklaas celebration in December. With the speech for instance, which I gave during the BLM protest, I feel like I framed it in a way that People of Color feel understood and not alone, but also allies and other people who have never experienced racism can actually understand it.

V: As an active member of BLM Maastricht and personally very concerned with the topic, how did you perceive the time when the movement was very much in the public eye, particularly after the death of George Floyd, and how did you see that developing in the last couple of months?

J: In the beginning, the topic got so much exposure, so many things were shared and it was trending. A few weeks later it went down and down, due to world news and also because of the difficulty of protesting during a pandemic. I felt like people wanted to find a reason to disapprove. One way or another, we will keep on protesting, within the corona rules; keeping the distance, people wearing masks. And yes, this is what I have been doing, even though I know the media will probably frame it as “these people don’t give a shit about the pandemic”. This is what they have been doing in the beginning, when the topic was trending as well. The protests were mainly in the media because they were violating the corona rules. The whys and the whats did not receive the same attention, which was a very messed up framing. Now we rarely reach the mainstream media discourse anymore and only people who are already interested in it will still get the news and information.

V: As the problem of racism and colonialism is manifold and the beginning was also influenced by the death of George Floyd, did something also change in what was communicated during the protest and let’s say what was on the agenda?

J: Nothing really changed actually. It sparked out because of the death of George Floyd and the circumstances around it. If he would have been a White man, it wouldn’t have happened. But the movement in general for me was not about him but about institutionalized racism and about spreading awareness that people need to get rid of it. But also, police brutality for instance. It is not as bad here as in the USA, but it is still a subject. A couple of months ago, the government announced that the Boa’s (a part of the Dutch civil police force) should get more means to defend themselves. And that was already after the death of Tomy Holton in Zwolle, which was a similar story to George Floyd’s, where five police officers used excessive force and he died soon afterwards.

V: When you held your moving speech at one of the BLM demonstrations in Maastricht, how did people react to the confrontation with your experiences?